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MISA MESS - EVIL Destroyed a School
JusticeDivin wrote on 19 May 2005

Grg and MISA are destroying many families and hurting many souls. You should KNOW this. I KNOW.... I lived through HELL under Grg's reign. SHAME ON THOSE in MISA or who support that cause.... IT IS NOT YOGA....anymore.... IT is EVIL and deceptive and has destroyed my life and many other lives as well.... Grg is a Very Sick man with a VERY VERY BIG EGO and Absolutely NO COMPASSION.... he takes from us MUCH MUCH more than he ever gave. Love - he does not know the meaning..... ask his "former" wife! - (Teddi) KARMA WILL FIX THIS but many are suffering at this very moment Because of foolish, ignorant, selfish and greedy people. W A K E U P !!!! I am very sincere and YOU Must realize this or your are surely blind.
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elena responded on 20 June 2005

can you tell me a bit more about that please. why? I do not feel Misa is a spiritual path but the person I love does... i need to know something more. Did you have any personal experience?
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Adi responded on 21 June 2005

Relax, don't take it to hard. They are a few people who feel like this about MISA, but instead of believing this you better ask your boyfriend directly. I am with MISA and nobody forces you to do anything. And about the scandal stories in press about orgies at yoga classes not even this angry guy would confirm them It is a too big lie.
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FRED responded on 02 May 2006

My wife has got mixed up with MISA in Romania it like she has been brain washed, the are teaching her and she believes 100pce that she needs no material things i.e. friends family processions and she has cut all ties to them, they are now teaching her on how not to be reincarnated , if you believe in reincarnation then the reason you come back is you never learned the lesson in that life,but the only way this can be proven is to die. This can not be yoga. Please if you can help let me know she will only talk to MISA group she is in, in Romania
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fred responded on 02 May 2006

I take this very hard you do not know this group, I have been to there yoga lessons and the 2-3 hour talk after the lesson have finished, yes you are wright it is there free will, as you go though week by week year by year and have reverse psychology used on you then yes you would believe almost anything. At this moment in time my wife is in year 5 and has been I say brainwashed that she does not need any materiel things and that includes family and friends, and now MISA is teaching her who not to come back in the next after life, they are trying to play god. This is not yoga, if it is its the dark side. Gregorian Bivolaru is not a guro and one day he will be found out for what he is the lowest life form the is he is an evil man and I hope they pick him up in Romania this week and thow away the keys. Please keep away from Gregorian Bivolaru and MISA
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fred responded on 02 May 2006

Please keep him out, our you will lose him I know
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Elena responded on 20 June 2006

If it is real yoga why at the camps they ask for Hiv and siphilis test. It is seems one of the priorities...
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johan responded on 30 September 2006

my gf is in MISA yoga school. About those STD tests (HIV etc), as far as I know those tests are required by the goverment of romania. Like tests for headlice for kiddie camps.This is what they told me. I know several people who are in the misa group. They all show similiar behaviour. The group is the most important thing, not family. No one dares to dissapoint the group by not going to a camp and instead giving attention to family. Normally they seem to be realy friendly and unselfishes. But when it really comes to it they will be extremely selfish and will choose a camp over a person. Maybe somebody here knows, I always thought that a guru was somebody who became a guru after learning yoga from a guru for many years? Grieg never did that. He red it from books and it came to him in dreams. They have 3nd or 4th year yoga students giving lessons to 1st year students. To only thing grieg is doing is winning souls. For what I don't know. Probably to boost his ego. You should read his articles, than you understand him. I hope I will get my gf as far away from the MISA school as I can.
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onkan shazbat responded on 01 October 2006

Hi Justice Divin Why haven't you responded to the posts?? Bill p.s my name is as real as your post
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Leena responded on 30 May 2007

For those of you who believe that the HIV and siphilis tests are required by the Romanian state, you should know that's a lie. In Romania, those tests are made at a person's request, they are not compulsory unless your doctor believes that there is something wrong with you, in which case he or she gives you a medical notice requiring the tests to be taken. In those MISA camps, the tests are required because, one summer, there came this American guy, by the name of Dick, who got some of the MISA girls infected with HIV. And a lot of MISA students engage into sexual relationships during the camps, so you can imagine what could have happened. And, if you didn't know, Grieg likes to "initiate" (meaning have intercouse with) all the pretty-looking girls in MISA. So...
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thomas responded on 31 May 2007

A wonderful man ,do not listen to negative propergander, He is a guru and the romanian gypsy state should leave him alone.
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kimik responded on 01 June 2007

I agree with you..All the people that have direct interests in this organization will say the same u do...but not honest people though.They will confess their direct experience & the disgust they got having it.It's disapointing but it's the truth.Bivolaru it's a big lier& the instructors that teach for him are spreading the lies in order to manipulate people & take advantage on them. Bivolaru has built a saga about his spiritual powers claiming he remembered many lives from his past incarnations when he was yoga master...so they fed more & more this saga & people gets astonished as butterflies are by a lamplight. The man is a crook...& also sick at head. Edited 01/06/2007 00:33:06 by kimik Edited 01/06/2007 20:05:49 by kimik Edited 01/06/2007 20:07:06 by kimik
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Thomas responded on 01 June 2007

No he is indeed a wonderful man, now being persecuted by the horrid romanian state,remember those terrible childrens homes,secret police ,state control, and negative propergander. I propose we donate money to allow him to open an ashram in uk. The world needs this man in this time of uncertainty and world crisis. I will be writing shortly to give details of ashram suggestion, location in uk and how to donate. to all loving devotees do not worry,soon Bivolaru will be with us in uk.
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Leena responded on 07 June 2007

Thomas, dear, have you ever been to Romania? Have you ever spent some time asking the yoga students in MISA what's really going on? I know you and many others are fascinated by Grieg, but he is not what he seems to be. He is considered a spiritual master, an Enlightened being, and his most faithful students here tend so say that the will of God is manifesting itself through him. How on Earth could the will of God be to send young women in Japan, to dance in striptease bars and donate all their earnings, to advise women who got pregnant to have an abortion by making tens and tens of uddhyana bandhas and nauli kryas, to have sex with underage girls, to send women to sleep with influent men, prosecutors and politicians, just to gain material favours, to behave like the most selfish person ever, by shouting around at people and checking that no one takes the lousy food given to ashramists and sells it at the market, to do so many objectionable deeds? He is so much compared with Jesus, I'm asking you all, has Jesus ever done anything like this? Think about it!
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Leena responded on 07 June 2007

Maybe Grieg started off with good intentions, but then he got corrupted by money and everything crumbled. You say you admire Grieg, could you talk bad about a person who's on her death bed, like he did with Monica Cesa? Is this human? Is this masterhood? Lately I found out that one MISA woman let her husband die in front of her (he had TBC) and did nothing to help him, just prayed for his soul. And that woman was a doctor!!! Is this normal? Everyone is free to believe in whatever he or she wants, but, unfortunately, in Grieg's case, facts speak for themselves. I wonder how many of you out there, I mean outside Romania, know what's really going on.
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DivineJustice responded on 08 June 2007

Thank you for the UK Ashram "heads-up". Now we can be prepared to stop it from ever happening. I will NOT allow more families to suffer from this very evil man and his devoted and blinded followers. So sad. If i was evil i could easily do the same and even More to damage the hearts and to steal the resources of the ignorant.
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JusticeDivine responded on 08 June 2007

Please tell everyone what else YOU know is really going on inside MISA. Someone MUST put a stop to this man and his business. IT IS TIME TO SPEAK OUT. Remember the leaders of the past who have burned their own buildings and then accused the "enemy" of attacking them. (WW-II and then NYC as examples) Then the sheep blindly believe that they and their "master" have been attacked by outside forces.... etc. This may be an example of what happened in Bucharest a few years ago. Then the leader leaves the country (to live the good life).. taking the "goods" with him... that the karma yogis worked to provide him.. how nice that he gave them back some of what THEY worked for... (not to mention the millions brought back from Japan).. Just speculation... but no matter.... the man does not have spiritual goodness or any compassion for others... Only for himself... not even for his (wife) !!!!! who does not exist... so they say.
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Thomas responded on 08 June 2007

We ae looking at a six month time span to organise the Ashram, will give details of location and donation details soon. many people are looking forward to misa in uk, everybody will be welcome to visit.
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Leena responded on 08 June 2007

Thomas, I hope you will have the decency to tell them just what they will find in MISA, exactly: Good parts: - hatha yoga, making friends, sharing ideas, belonging to a spiritual "family", vegetarianism Bad parts: - giving them a mixed type of knowledge, taken from books written in European languages, without mentioning the authors, and, even more, calling them "half-scholars" - cultivating the spirit of superiority in them, of the chosen ones, above the others, teaching them how to cultivate their ego - convincing them that having multiple relationships is good, that any guy and girl should have 12 lovers, one from each zodiac sign
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Leena responded on 08 June 2007

- convincing girls to sleep with their instuctors, because so the practice goes - convincing girls that they are "burning their karma" by performing on video-chats - convincing girls that performing in striptease bars in Japan and donating their money to MISA is making them evolve - convincing well-established couples that they are "egotic and closed" if they do not open up their relatonship and have sex wih others as well - teaching them how to behave with people who leave the school, to call them "daemonic", "evil gossipers" and so - fooling them that karma-yoga is a "must" - for the school's benefit, not for what karma-yoga really means - teaching people to swear on the Holy Bible that they won't reveal any of the "secrets" learned to anyone Again, you are free to do what you feel is right. If this is a spiritual path for you, if you could stand the thought of having your sister, daughter, lover "initiated" by one of the instructors or even by Grieg, and feel the Divine Grace has come upon you, then I rest my case. I'm not saying spirituality is bad, I'm just saying that some people are taking advantage of it and of the naive ones.
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Leena responded on 08 June 2007

And something else: - organizing Miss Shakti Competitions during the summer camps, introducing this compulsory phase, called "the secret test", in which the girls had to perform the urinary orgasm, fooling them that only Grieg would see the video tapes and then selling the shots in XXX shops Great, isn't it? - teaching girls that being extremely fat is beautiful and it's pure "vitality", just eat bananas with chocolate, and you'll see
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Thomas responded on 08 June 2007

LEENA,YOU WILL BE VERY WELCOME TO UK ASHRAM,WHY YOU MAKE THESE WILD ACCUSATIONS ONLY YOU KNOW.
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THOMAS responded on 08 June 2007

Also leena you know very well that the romanian state persecuted misa, there were over 30,000 followers at one time until the communist authoritys decided to persecute with the full powers of state apperatus. beatings, filming, false allegations,as misa was deemed a threat to communist regime. thank god the swedish state granted bivolaru residency. the same thing is happening in china today with persecution and torture of falon gong practitioners. Thankfully our guru will be in uk soon and we will be able to have a misa ashram.
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Leena responded on 08 June 2007

Thomas, with all due respect, you seem not to know that much about the Romanian state. I agree with you that the Communist regime was harsh and that it stifled just about any intent for spirituality. I know that Grieg was arrested and put into jail for his beliefs. But the Communist dictatorship was brought to an end in 1989, when the Romanian Revolution took place. MISA was established as an organization afterwards. Before 1989, there were only a few people around Grieg, 17 or something like that. Grieg was a different person then. He used to explain people what Yoga and Tantra really meant, to tell them that Tantra was not for just about anybody. I'm not talking about that Grieg. I'm talking about this Grieg. You say that my accusations are wild. They are not my accusations. They are the statements of those students who came to know the truth and decided to speak up, not shut down like the others. It's their experiences there, their life, their lost dreams, their disappointment. Money can corrupt even the most truthful of hearts, that's for sure. In the beginning, Grieg held conferences and said that prostitution includes even showing one's naked body for money, now karma-yoga in Japan and on videochats is OK. Do you know how many movies with MISA yoga students are being sold abroad? In the beginning, he said that a relationship can only be based on love, now he says that sex is OK, love can come afterwards. It's his voice on those tapes and CDs, not mine.
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Leena responded on 08 June 2007

How do you know there were over 30,000 followers at one time? Because they say so? Have you counted them? From your message, I understand you still think Romania is a Communist country... How sad... Do you know about Monica Cesa's death? Do you know what Grieg said then? Do you know Simona Trandafir had to read his message for the students? Do you know all major instructors - Simona Trandafir, Claudiu Trandafir, Liviu Gheorghe left MISA? Do you know about the letters they sent Grieg, explaining their reasons? Do you know what Grieg answered them?
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Leena responded on 08 June 2007

One more thing: I agree that the authorities acted in a wrong manner on March 18th, 2004. If they had something on Grieg, they should have solved the problem differently. Yet, he is a corrupter of hearts, there's no doubt in that. Unfortunately. I would have liked things to be different, I would have liked him to do what he preaches, but it's his choice, after all. Do you know that there used to be meditations during which the students pertained to God through Grieg? Do you know that he got awfully mad when Simona Trandafir told them to pertain to God directly?
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thomas responded on 08 June 2007

Of course I know about the political situation there, and have actually seen documented evidence regarding membership numbers, also wondered if you have anything or connection to authorities in Romania. You will still be welcomed to the Ashram ahen up and running.I will contact you in four to six months time .
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Leena responded on 08 June 2007

I have no connection to any authority in Romania. Just a bunch of friends fed up with all those negative aspects that others seem to enjoy. Thomas, good luck with your ashram, we all need to believe in something, to belong to somebody or something, if God didn't exist, we would invent Him... If Grieg is really God's representative on Earth, as many seem to believe, then what can I say? The Bible is one big lie, and Jesus is a phoney. All the best to you and all the others for whom this path is right.
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John responded on 30 June 2007

Hi Leena, I am interested in joining Misa, please let me knoe when you intend to start uk branch.
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mark responded on 05 July 2007

I am also interested, misa have a good website ,look forward to meeting them.
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prema responded on 17 July 2007

I followeed the yoga classes from Misa for 5 years. in the begining i thought it was really great, I used to practice htha yoga every day and i had good results. But slowly slowly i could see the brainwashing process starting. and i began to find out things that people in the 13-14th year of yoga didn't know. My first BIG shock was when I decided to go the Bivolaru's birthday in 2003. It was an orgiastic show, performed for the guru.Lots of fat women and guys on the stage, naked, likcing each other mimicking the sexual acts. And all claiming that is tantra, that is so exceptional, you just have to transfigure all you see. Hee, hee...you'll hear a lot about the transfiguring process there. And how the guru is the greatest and so on... So whoever asked me how was it, I couldn't even say how it was, because it was shocking! should i say that many of those girls were under 18? In my second year of yoga, I began to know many other people, going to the yoga camp and to the spirals. I got pretty much the idea that many of them were sexual obsessed, only thinking of sex, and the great guru. I met people who believed Bivolaru was the second Jesus and the greatest master ever. Had pictures of him on the walls. It was a custom of giving pictures of him, to meditate with his"state" from that picture.
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prema responded on 17 July 2007

I saw one of the Miss Shakti shows, which one could say was a live pornographic show, seeing all those naked girls opening their legs on a stage. Of course they were told they burn lots of bad karma if they do that and they get a lot of bad karma if they refuse to participate. Ha ha!!! Some really believed that! They had each a little show, where they had to perform in ass certain story. One was Snow White and she had to pretend having sex with the 7 dwarfs. So the more sex in the competition , the better and the most appreciated the girl would be by the guru. Ibegan to know more girls and to get some " proposals". to work on the sex websites was one of them. there were lots of people doing it and it was quite bothering that as soon as we were exiting the classrom , they started to make their offers, trying to entice you with the money you could get.
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prema responded on 17 July 2007

Then I got to meet one of guru's favourite's. and she told me how wonderful is to have sex with the guru and how great would that be for my spiritual evolution. i got to tell you, at that point for some reason, i began to believe all the stories about the great guru, because the instructors wouldn't stop telling you how wonderful and great he has. So this girl,gives me advice to write the guru a letter telling him that i want to "see him" ( you wouldn't say you want to be "innitiated" ). So he sends me back a response with a "note" for Obor 2, the place where all the girls were waiting for him to come and have sex with them. So, I go there, and i also wait for 2 weeks, and I see all those girls, eating like pigs to try getting more and more fat so that the guru would like them. Meanwhile i hear all kinds of stories about the guru and the girls. Many of them were just 15-16 years old, some of them sent by their mothers (???!!!!!! ) to be innitiated by the great guru. some already had sex with him and now they came for the second, third etc time.
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prema responded on 17 July 2007

So one day he come, he makes a list and he starts the "job". He was doing them one after the other and we could all hear the moaning through the door. It was gross, and some of the girls were meditating with the great "state" of orgasm while they heard them moaning. Somehow the electric panel bursts into flames , so he couldn't perform there anymore. HHe calls the car with his driver and transports the girls to one of his apartments. I think I wnet in the first transport. And I could see him and talk to him and watch him. He ate caviar and red fish eggs ( which I know they are extremely expensive ) and all kinds of very rare exotic fruits. And I thought, wow , pretty humble lifestyle you got, mister! He told me I was too skinny and that I should eat more. Right before my "turn" I had a weird feeling in my body, like my aura was expanding and shrinking really fast, so I threw up big time. Well, when I got in his bedroom, was completely dark, couldn't see a thing, and the consecration wasn't positive so i got rejected ( hee hee ). I felt so relieved. he told me my Manipura was blocked. Oh, well, lucky me, I said. other girls, with a negative consecration were crying their soul out, because they didn't get lucky with the guru.
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prema responded on 17 July 2007

So , these are not stories, it is absolutely true, and I saw it with my own eyes. At that apartment , there was one of his girlfriends, Miruna, who at that time was under 18. I remember seeing that girl there and i was wondering what is she doing here, is she the maid or something. She was really tall, that is the kind of girls he likes. There was a really tall girl in my town he liked and he kept calling for her to Bucharest to screw her. he managed to turn her against her family, leave the school, and become a fat, sex-diva. It is really interesting how some men ( especially the instructors , are big fanatic believers in Bivolaru). They would get so mad if you dare to say something doubtful about him. But some of them have no idea , what actually is going on. It surprised me that claudiu trandafir , simona and the other who left Misa , woke up so late. the knew him since '80's, i am sure he has certain powers and that maybe in the beginning he was well intented, but as time passed he fell and he got really lost with this tantra thing.
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prema responded on 17 July 2007

be also aware that he is a self proclaimed "master" and "liberated". He didn't have a master or a guru and no one recognized his "liberated' state. check online, false guru or fake guru and you will find things to look for in order to see if a guru is false or not. He has many of those things. i don't know if any of you read any of his writings or listend to him. He talks and writes like a delusional person, that kind of talking, a lot, with big words, and saying nothing. if you go strictly for the yoga and leave the other gur stuff, I guess it is a pretty good school. I can't compare it with others. only with Bikram, which I deeply disliked, that isn't yoga for me. But don't get lost with the other stuff, karma yoga, leave your family and your school or job. Use your own brains to think what you want, don't let them tell you what you need But better, go to a yoga school of tradition, like sivananda or bihar school. Take care!
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mark responded on 17 July 2007

Ihave already attended a meeting with a misa group in regard to setting up the uk branch. the organisation is still being persecuted and subject to negative propergander by certain authoritys the above post is an example.
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andrew responded on 17 July 2007

It would appear that the romanian intellegance service is still going strong ,unforgiving coming out with obscene sexual allegations.
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prema responded on 17 July 2007

what are you trying to say , mark? That what I wrote it isn't true? well, the you'll have your chance to experiment the Misa doctrines. I also was afraid in 2004 , that police would come into my house and take my stuff, I know for sure that my phone was listened by police. And for what? I was just an innocent follower of yoga. But because the " big cheese" was smart enough to do stupid things, now so many people missjudge yoga itself and take it as a bad thing just because a sick man twisted so many minds. so don't say anything untill you see the facts with your own eyes. I am only speaking from my experience.Bivolaru is very similar with da Free John. after I saw some movies with da free John I was amazed how much they are alike. And as one said once, put God and sex together and then you'll find thousands of followers. So this is what he did. you don't know anyone from romania or talked to people from there. I lived there. so don't tell me I make negative propaganda. But best for you, go and taste it! i am sure you'll get to know the big G, who now lives happily in sweden and gets his bunch of fresh "meat" regularly.
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mark responded on 18 July 2007

actually I do know several romanians and have been there myself. I hope that the anti bivolaru misa propaganda posted on this site will not deter people from looking and exploring this form of yoga .hopefully Bivolaru himself will be here at some stage.
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prema responded on 18 July 2007

well, mark, I wish you all the bests then! I remember how I was in the first 2 years, I would have defended the master and the course, but once I began to know more about him, I kept quiet. wish you to have the strength to stay on your path! Before I went to that course I also heard all sorts of things and still I wanted to see for myself. And i did. Big time.
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Patricia responded on 31 July 2007

Gosh there are some strong views on here - I could never believe yoga could be so controversial. I'm interested by the fact that all those supporting MISA seem to be men. Judging by some of the 'benefits', it does not surprise me. I would like to hear from a woman who supports MISA and does not feel taken advantage of or controlled. Anyone out there? Also someone mentioned Monica Cesa - can you tell me more about that situation? What is the credibility of other branches in other countries. There are many followers in Sweden I believe. What is happening there? And in the UK ashram (if it is open yet)? Do you think Grieg is a rotten apple? Or (as the saying goes) there are no rotten apples, just rotten barrels - ie. is the collective community of the school tainted or is it just a few teachers.
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patricia responded on 31 July 2007

I meant to add thanks! I'd like to hear from both sides because the allegations are incredibly strong and disturbing. Of course it could be propoganda, but what are these inititations? Do they take place like that? What is the spiritual reason behind them? At the moment I find it hard for them to be justified. Can anyone contruct a coherent argument to defend Grieg or the school? Prema/Elena - were you both students? How long did you stay for? I'd like to understand both sides. I am in a position to join the school but am wondering now......
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Minerva responded on 07 September 2007

Dear friends I have been practising yoga for about 10 years in MISA related shool outside Romania. I have spent some time in Romania and met Grieg many times in camps in Romania and Denmark. I can say that this has been a wonderful time for me but also challenging time. When you enter a spiritual school, your ego will be challenged. When somebody speaks the truth, many will be afraid. I can see this when reading all these accusations. Better to find out yourself instead of believing gossiping... Minerva
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Bivolaru Who responded on 22 September 2007

Only discovered this thread just now. There is a busy forum in Romanian and English with first-hand witness accounts by MISA student women who have been pressured into giving sex to Bivolaru and appearing in commercial porno videos. This is not yoga but simply unethical sex trade. MISA - illegal activities http://exmisa.eamped.com/topic425.html MISA and Gregorian Bivolaru - English Area http://exmisa.eamped.com/misa-and-gregorian-bivolaru-english-area-vf22.html It is also revealed that Daniela Dae, MISA teacher since 1990, is wanted for human trafficking in Romaina is now running MISA's Finnish school, called Natha, under the her new name Daniela Dee.
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bhairava responded on 22 September 2007

xxx
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NathaHelsinki responded on 22 September 2007

This is a forum thread in Finnish about Natha Natha, Gregorian Bivolaru and MISA http://jooga.meditaatio.fi/viewtopic.php?t=1761
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prema responded on 22 September 2007

Interesting...when I posted this website here, they kept deleting my messages, again and again and again...
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YogaNotSex responded on 22 September 2007

Which site address kept being deleted from which site?
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sara responded on 24 September 2007

hei there thomas a piece of wildly benevolent advice: once you open a misa ahram, you make sure you open a mental hospital, a STD specialised clinic, a home for the kids the misa "yogis" will abandon and also one for the parents they will forsaken, open up - and this is COMPULSORY - a special house in which your dear "g u r u" can screw all underaged pretty girls (well, apparently he is impotent nowadays, but still he can nonetheless make them sit in circles and pee, while he films this and sells the movie, so you see indeed he is a resurceful person and the special house has a good use). make sure you open up a stripping club and you have a VIP lounge for all corrupt politicians to get blown by misa girls. and many other similar spiritual institutions. i trust you got the point. the romanian communist state did not prosecute bivolaru - may God give him all the he deserves, and I say that in all good faith - for his spiritual powers. but for pornography - that was illegal. had bivolaru possesed any paranormal capacities, they would have taken him in - ceausescu was indeed doing psychic research :)) so you see, all these ignorant remarks only make those of us who know (by personal, unmistakable experience) the truth about bivolaru smile...a very sad smile, indeed, because we know what lies ahead of you and believe you me, it is a bitter, heartbreaking and life-devastating path. you are free to tread it, of course. but at least you have been warned. take care man!
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Thomas responded on 09 October 2007

Does this mean that you will not be coming to the uk centre when its up and running sarah? Tommy.
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Leena responded on 06 November 2007

Thomas, Mark, Andrew: Be my guests and take MISA away from Romania. But take it on the whole, with all its good and bad parts. Have Bivolaru screw your women for a change. Have him infect your loved ones with various STDs for a change. Have him convince your girlfriends to have an abortion for a change. Have him encourage your closed to heart to star in porno movies for a change. And swallow all this deep down, let it enlighten you and give your spirit wings... Or, even better, take them by the hand and offer them to him... Don't you think about their age, Bivolaru likes underaged girls... Don't you think about their mental status, about their psychology which might get scrambled, about you accumulating negative karma for playing with innocent people's minds and souls, no, just do it, God Himself will love it... If all this is propaganda, why don't you check it up for yourselves and see how Mihai Stoian, NATHA's leader, feels "titled" by the porno movie he made?
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Thomas responded on 06 November 2007

Have been to sweden leena, met the man himself, also in touch with teachers. interesting post leena,very good eastern bloc security sevices propergander,still going strong after all this time. Will be going back to sweden in a few days,you are welcome to come.
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Leena responded on 07 November 2007

Andrew: I take your comment as a personal attack, which, according to the rules of this forum, is not permitted. I advise you to revise your attitude and stop accusing any Romanian posting here of being a "propagandist" and a member of the "secret services". You simply don't know the things that we know, and that's a fact, anyone capable of logical thinking can see that. You only CLAIM things, we KNOW things. Big difference, I must say.
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Leena responded on 07 November 2007

Sorry, I meant to say "Thomas", not "Andrew". My apologies.
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Leena responded on 07 November 2007

For Patricia: Yes, prema was a student. Mister Bivolaru appeared on TV some time ago and said he had had sex with 6,000 women. He prefers brunettes. The "initiation" involves the girl or woman having sex with Bivolaru. The reason behind that (or what he tells them) is that they are benefiting of a great grace by doing that, that this special sex party is helping them evolve spiritually, that it is burning their negative karma away. Sometimes, the sex parties are preceded by meditations.
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Leena responded on 07 November 2007

For you all: MISA produced several adult movies. I have personally seen them. Lots of girls are masturbating there and even touching and stimulating one another, for the so-called "urinary orgasm". What is your opinion on such actions carried out by a spiritual school, moreover, a school which claims to be the biggest yoga school in Europe?
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tommy responded on 07 November 2007

Soon to head off to sweden with two romanian yogis, boy o boy leena, you are in first gear with your propagander machine. tell your comrades that the seventy's and are over.we live in a country were free speech is permitted. love to you comrade leena. tommy.
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WITHHELD responded on 07 November 2007

There is always two sides to any story,I have recently looked at sites on the web which explain in great detail the romanian states persecuting of yogis in that country.troops and secret police were bursting into private homes and arresting practicing yogis ,you can only imagine what they must have been endured.there is also a video on utube concerning this persecution. it must have taken a lot of courage to practice yoga in a police state as romania used to be . we are so lucky to be able to think, and practice what we want without the full force of the state bearing down on us. misa is probably one of the largest yoga organisations in europe so please let people find out for themselfs ,we are intelligent enough to get up and go should there be any improper behaviour. sex scandels were a typical tool used by authoritorian states in the seventys. we are a lot more clued up and sreet wise in this day and age. please no more tacky sex posts,the wall came down many years ago.
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Andrew responded on 07 November 2007

...............................................
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ANDREW responded on 08 November 2007

lEENA, You advise me to revise my attitude or what? will thugs come to ransack my home ,beat me and take me away just like they did to romanian yogis or anybody practicing an eastern art . Leena we still have free speech in this country ,and for your information i do have romanian freinds and contacts .I have not broken the rules of this forum by making a personal attack on you.
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CompassGuru responded on 09 November 2007

I am so sorry... It was not me, it was someone else I trusted completely...like Osho trusted Sheela Silverman... demons sometimes appear as angels... and all the viagra... now I have to pay the price... I am so sorry... please dont remove this my avowal...
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James responded on 11 November 2007

LIKE YEAH MAN, OOOOO I'M A WASTED COMPASS GURU,THE DEVILLL MAAAAN YEAH SEX DRUGS AND VIAGRA MAN.
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CompassGuru responded on 12 November 2007

YEAH, MAN!!! YOU ARE PERFECTLY RIGHT! MY COMPASS IS BROKEN MY PULA IS SORE I WORSHIP THE DEVIL WHO SERVES ME NO MORE. NOW I AM CRYING HAVE TO PAY THE PRICE BUT STILL I DO GIVE THEM CLAP, CHLAMYS, PAPS AND LICE. ALL POLLEN AND VIAGRA I SWALLOWED IN VAIN WHERE IS MY ENERGY GONE? SURELY NOT IN MY BRAIN. I AM WAITING FOR JUDGEMENT THE END IS NOW NEAR ONLY MY GOOD SERVANT PAUL DIAMOND CAN KEEP ME FROM FEAR HE STILL HAS NO CLUE WHATS REALLY GOING ON HE WILL PAY HIS PRICE TOO WHEN NATHAS TIME HAS COME
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Patricia responded on 12 November 2007

OK this thread has taken a really weird turn. What has yoga got to do with porn? I wonder what all these accusations have to actually do with your average yogi who likes to turn up for a lesson once a week for a little spritual guidance/teaching? If we take away the perhaps dubious sexual morals of some of the teachers (or rather if we don't get involved in this side), can anyone actually give me a balanced review of this school?! (without the sensationalist accusations - I'm sorry but things like 'porn' and 'propaganda' are just meaningless as they are subject to many different interpretations. Last century showing an ankle was considered 'porn', and any cause (good or bad) can be considered as 'propaganda' or trying to influence the attitude of people for/against something.) Sorry guys - just trying to bring this thread back to an intelligent debate and not a slanging match.
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InI responded on 12 November 2007

miss, you are joking!!! just read the english forum - you will find easily what is fiction or reality... http://exmisa.eamped.com/natha-agama-tara-etc-vf22.html my personal impression: 1+2 year ok good asanas good yoga but if you have open eyes you find out quickly what it is all about--- most of the stuff "borrowed"- like the danish natha "tantra" course from Ashley Thirleby et al; but treated as big secret obtained by gurus dreams--- the extremely secret mantras borrowed from Sivananda et al--- the brainwashing starts in Herculane and summer camp Costinesti---alltime meditations on "Christus+Shiva in uniperson" Grieg aka CompassGuru---///
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InI responded on 12 November 2007

///brainwashing method: mindrelaxing tech especially on anahata after that you get very receptive for the BW programs (like in other cults)---after BW you are ready for the uplifters as: compassguru bringing nice stds to the better looking girls---a real tantra master haha---and/or you earn some easy money to "open up" your legs and heart---never seen such brainwashed and misled poor women---he will pay for that--- in natha they even have now yoga for kids; I wonder how the danish media reacts when they find out about their "spiritual" leaders nice movies---not the porn, his film is ridiculous like any other bad porn; but the girls standing in rows and urinating on each other---you must see it to believe it--- enough...if you are so naive that you havent found out the truth about misa yet, no one can help you---I wish you good luck!!!!!
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Patricia responded on 13 November 2007

Thanks Ini. What are the BW programs? So are you saying that the teachers abuse their position of trust to take advantage of vulnerable women in the name of spirtual enlightment? It doesn't sound very yogic to me. How do they justify this?
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InI responded on 13 November 2007

a good example for BW (NATHA Denmark - Griegs birthday meditations):read "penetrated" in exact meaning ;) like praying to G instead of praying to god, G picture worship and G idolatry in every possible way; the leaders exploiting the women for "easy" money... of course all burns your bad karma ---if you are not willing to serve, more bad karma--- and since the meditation techs make you very vulnerable and receptive, you are open for their suggestive/hypnotic stuff...like:::WE ARE THE SAVIOURS OF MANKIND IN THIS DARK AGE OF KALIYUGA!!!and G is CHRIST himself with a big SVADDISTHANA chakra, CHRIST had only ANAHATA!!!So G will free you from all your sins if you make love with him ...and so on and so on!
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InI responded on 13 November 2007

Justification: Haha! They simply LIE to you...they have really absolutely no interest that the guys from the first 2 or 3 years have any idea about the "open up" processes. They lie to your face with a nice heartily smile...for them the main thing is the "school" or G or whatever it is...Lying is OK as long as the results are OK. YOGA??? They have no idea about Yoga, they borrowed just some stuff and have no authentic spirit. The compassguru himself taught them to lie if there is a good reason; as money, sex (if you have to cheat on your partner or do have some hardly detectable STDs) or juridical problems (very many).
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Leena responded on 14 November 2007

Patricia 'Porn', nowadays, has a clear meaning. When you see several completely naked girl, stimulating and licking each other's vagina, drinking each other's urine, sucking each other's nipples, what do you think of? Spiritual practice? Erotic movies? Educational and artistic productions, like MISA followers say? As for 'propaganda', the word some users here are so fond of, well, they should read MISA's official site and see... MISA followers believe in aliens and say Romania is the new spiritual pole of the world... And this, based on Sundar Singh's prophecies for Romania, which I have never seen in original, only on Internet sites... Some users here accuse me of making propaganda and denying the right to free speech (read Andrew and Thomas' replies). They claim they know things about Romania and so. I believe they know nothing. You can't really know things about a country unless you live there or document yourself profoundly. Which I don't believe is the case here. I have those porn movies, several friends of mine have them, they recognised the girls from MISA in those movies, with names and all. MISA keeps denying their involvement in this. They say there are no proofs that those adult movies involve them. How miserable can you be, to say something like that, when people can name those girls? Some of them are medical doctors, others have other public jobs. MISA instructor, Mihai Stoian, appears in 'The Magic Passage'. What more solid proof can there be?
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Leena responded on 14 November 2007

Now, about the abuses: I have seen those videos on google. I never said they are not true. I never said the yoga practitioners from MISA, treated as if they were vicious criminals, deserved that. I never said it was right for the Romanian police and gendarmerie to behave in such a way. If they wanted to discover something, that was not the way to act. Those people were not the real culprits. The ex-MISA students on the eamped forum do not agree to the abuses shown in those videos. The violence of the attacks turned MISA into a victim and gave it the chance to go abroad and cry outloud that they are being persecuted in Romania. While foreigners are moved by what they see in those google videos - and I repeat, we do not agree to what happened then, it was completely inhuman and wrong, MISA continues to have its ways in Romania. And that's a problem. Foreigners only see and hear the good side of the story. You see, MISA was accused of anti-semitism. In order to counteract these accusations, they promoted a video on their site, where the students from Israel reject these accusations. There is this girl, Ana (Sophia) Weinstein, and she also appears in one of those adult movies. So, in the beginning, MISA uses her to clear its reputation and keep its image clean, then ruins her reputation and image by selling the movie in which she appears abroad... How many of you would have liked to be involved in such things?
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Leena responded on 14 November 2007

On November 1st, 2007, and on November 12th, 2007, the Romanian TV channel B1 TV ("Nasul" TV show, host: Radu Moraru) approached MISA's problem again. During the first show, the female guest spoke about the "open couple relationship" promoted within MISA, which made her husband drift away from her. Several MISA ideas were discussed, and the host even presented some images from one of the famous adult movies, showing Ms. Simona Popescu, vice-president of "Asociatia Dacica" from Timisoara, and MISA instructor. Mr. Spatariu, "Asociatia Dacica" 's president, was called during the show, to talk about "Dacica" and confirm the identity of the female appearing in the shots. He denied recognizing her. A few days after the show, on "Asociatia Dacica" 's site, a notice appeared, claiming that the female guest had lied during the show, when making those remarks, and that they believe the show was meant to denigrate MISA again, "Dacica" having a fruitful cooperation with MISA.
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Leena responded on 14 November 2007

During the second show, Mr. Moraru demonstrated, with proofs, that "Asociatia Dacica" had tried to obtain some money from the City Hall in Timisoara, in order to develop a programme for preventing STD's. The programme was called "Iubeste viata" (Learn to love life). Although the City Hall had approved the money in the first instance, they annuled their decision afterwards, because the way the programme was being implemented didn't match what "Asociatia Dacica" had presented in the beginning. This is what the City Hall's representative said. Mr. Spatariu, "Dacica" 's president, claimed that, in fact, the money was withdrawn because they were associated with the controversial organization MISA. He again denied recognizing the person in the above-mentioned shots. But there was a phone call during this second show, when a man confirmed the identity of the person shown and even said that Mr. Spatariu knows that woman, Simona Popescu, quite well. Naturally, MISA reacted and yogaesoteric, its official site, announced that it would organize a protest meeting on Thursday, November 15th, in front of B1 TV headquarters in Bucharest. This notice is included in a longer article, its author criticizing Mr. Moraru and the topics approached during the two shows. Of course, they deny - for the 100th time - that those adult movies involve MISA.
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Patricia responded on 14 November 2007

Thank you for your post. I think you have constructed a convincing and valid case for support and that you bring all the various threads of argument together. I was merely pointing out that use of certain terms are meaningless without quantifiable examples or explanations, and I found this thread jumped between sensational accusations without any basis or foundation. Your argument (please correct me if I'm wrong) is against adult entertainment ('porn') (in the sense of the distribution & making of explicit films/videography/photos etc) and its knock on effects to a) the participants and b) their families and friends (arguments which anyone involved in the adult entertainment industry is probably familiar with)? What makes this more special as a case, is that not only is it "porn" but it also claims a connection with spirituality. Worryingly the example of the TV show shows that MISA does not seem to fall under any regulatory body (whether that be a yoga body, a teaching association, or even a financial, fairtrade or adult entertainment body) and has a law unto its own. It does perhaps need to set some boundaries and be more transparent in its activities. Is this what your case is? Is this what you are asking for?
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InI responded on 14 November 2007

Dear Patricia, If you have read all threads and also analyzed the exmisa forum I think you already should have a clear picture-therefore your questions seem a little bit strange. I "ask" for following: 1) Re-Evaluation of MISA (including the new data) and official denotation as CULT - SECT. (all qualifications for that DO NOW exist) 2) Public announcement in the media of MISA franchises worldwide. (People must be warned, or do you want to take the risk of kiddie Yoga near urine porn girl productions?) 3) Evaluation of copyrighted material in the courses followed by prosecution 4) Evaluation of earned money in the worldwide white slavery + webcam + ...; prosecution 5) Official apology from compassguru to abused and infected women plus financial compensation 6) Degradation of danish NATHA leader, who is responsible for most of the malefactions, to 1st year of Yoga course 7) OFFICIAL DISSOCIATION OF ALL "CLEAN" FRANCHISES FROM COMPASSGURU AND MISA ACTIVITIES NO MERCY!!!
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Leena responded on 15 November 2007

Patricia, I saw InI sent you an answer as well, but my impression is that your post was addressed to me. And yes, your guess is right, that's exactly what I was referring to. InI has also stated the problems clearly. Those movies exist, and, as far as we know, the girls appearing in them did not sign any contract for the productions to be released on any market, nor did they consent to the shots being shown to the large public. The other negative aspects of MISA were discussed both here and on the exmisa forum, so anyone interested in finding out more can read the English area there.
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Bendover responded on 15 November 2007

Leena inc boy are you both stark raving bonkers, porn porn porn for goodness sake we get the general gist of your post. its quite obvious that L&i are the same person. Looking foreward to hearing from the people who are going to visit misa in sweden.
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Patricia responded on 16 November 2007

Thanks to Leena and Ini for clearing things up. I wanted to know exactly what the case against MISA was. I had indeed read alot regarding this subject (thanks to your links) but I was unclear as to what outcomes you were campaigning for and why. Bendover points out that 'porn' features a lot in the posts but that doesn't form a case by itself. However in the contexts Ini has presented it, it has made more sense. I would not want to inadvertantly support any organisation that abuses their authority to take advantage of vulnerable women and/or men in the name of spiritual enlightenment. There are obviously ex students who feel this has happened to them. I think it's good to be aware. I am interested in Ini's point about disassociating other franchises from MISA. What/where are these other franchises? Also there seems to be no counter argument here from students of MISA. Anyone?
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Leena responded on 16 November 2007

Patricia MISA has quite a lot of franchises all over the world. Two of them are TARA, from the UK, and NATHA, from Denmark. NATHA was involved in some legal matters corcerning the Bhoga ashram, the case went to court, because it seems NATHA took over the place in a dishonest manner. Now, there are other associations and organizations in Romania which are related to MISA, and one of them is "Asociatia Dacica", which I talked about in my previous posts. Bracket: MISA now believes that the Romanian TV channel, B1 TV, is led by the freemasons, because it dared make the connection between "Dacica" and MISA and show some images from one of the movies, in which "Dacica" 's vicepresident and MISA instructor, Ms. Simona Popescu, is said to appear. Then, MISA is also connected to the "Santo Raphael" Center, which deals with naturist medicine and products. I don't know if any ROMANIAN MISA followers will show up here and answer your questions...
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

Dear Patricia, you can verify very easily yourself if there is some truth in the stories about MISA, NATHA and the erotic movies. First you can watch a movie posted on video.google by the MISA yoga students. A movie witch describes the abuses of the romanian authorities. Removed At about the minute 4:30 of the movie you can see Mihai Stoian, the Natha leader, speaking in defence of MISA. Next you can watch also on video.google an interview about the making of an erotic movie (or porn movie, depends what is your oppinion in the matter): Removed There appears an actor with the stage name "Paul Diamond". Watch with much attention the faces and listen to the voice of both characters from the to movies. There is a distance in time of about 5 years between the two movies, that fact explaining a slight difference in the shape and colour of the hair (a little more grayish in the movies about the abuses). And if the images from the first movie about the abuses might seem a little unclear,there are links on the video.google to more similar movies in wich appears Mihai Stoian. I am curios if after you will see the images you will think or not if is the same person in the both movies. ;) Everyone else can watch themselves the movies indicated and make their own conclusions. Edited 16/11/2007 14:44:44 by yogibis
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

There is also a problem with the accusations of antisemmitism. This is one of the accusation heads brought by the romanian prosecutors in one of the trials against some of the MISA leaders. If you'll enter on Removed, the official site of MISA(the romanian version), you'll find there a section entitled "Demascarea Masoneriei" (Unraveling the Masonry - that's an approximate translation). There the freemasonry is openly accused of being "a satanic sect". At that section you will find posted at the subsection "Undeniable truths" (again an approximate translation) something called "The Secret Protocols of The Freemasons Masters" ("Protocoalele Secrete ale Maestrilor Francmasoni" in romanian). The paternity of the text is attributed to a russian, Serghey Nilus, so it would be clear to you and others that the text is in fact "The Protocols of the Elders of Sion". Edited 16/11/2007 17:13:05 by yogibis
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

What is most interesting in the case of the controversy about the "antisemmitism subject" is not the presence of the text itself but the presence of some comments that wish to prove that what is written in the Protocols is true. Unfortunately, you will have to find a good romanian translator (one that has no connection to MISA) to verify what is written on the website. Also, in the 90's some MISA leaders published some books in which either declared that masonry is a satanic sect ruled by zionist jews that worship Satan either that the official story of the Holocaust is not true. But to publish those kind of things became illegal in Romania only after 2002. Even MISA's PR aknowledged in an article on yogaesoteric that one of those books contained ideas that negated the Holocaust, but stressed the aspect that the book was published before 2002.
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

Again, I could give you some links to a website were one of those books (that book in wich is affirmed the "fact" that sionistic jews lead the masonry and they worship Satan - the book also contains alleged "citations" from the Talmud in wich jews are given from God the right to steal or kill the "goims" etc.), published initialy in 1997, is freely available. But for that also you will need a good romanian translator. If you want links to that book or to some of the yogaesoteric's controversial articles, you have only to ask. The problem of the romanian authorities in this matter is to prove that some of the MISA's leaders continued spreading that kind of ideas after 2002. And for that they rely mainly on testimonies of a handful of people (ex-yoga MISA classes attendees). They mentioned in the accusation papers (part of which leaked on the net before the beginning of the trial) those books, but it seems that they have no other written proof of that kind (books) for the period after 2002.
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

Also, on the romanian page of yogaesoteric are posted excerpts from a book written by Valentin Manoliu (i think the guy is not a MISA yogi) in which the author openly accuses the romanian jewish community to have been involved in alleged "coup d'etat" (it is not explicitely mentioned in the text but we deduced that the "coup d'etat" mentioned by the author is the Romanian Revolution in 1989). Some can argue that the paternity of the accusation is not one of MISA but only of Valentin Manoliu only. But in other articles on yogaesoteric the book is described as beeing "an exceptionaly editorialistic new apparition"(I appologize if my translation is not very accurate) and it is declared the fact that in may 2006 the book was freely distributed to the yogis which attended the Yoga Camp in Herculane. Leena and others can give you links to verify that. And in the case that the webpages' administrators will erase the controversial content, we've taken a preventive measure to make some screenshots. Edited 16/11/2007 17:16:20 by yogibis
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

Also, on another website (which is not officially of MISA) is posted the book about the "satanic zionistic freemasons". The website is www.dezvaluiri.go.ro. On another site www.dezvaluiri.as.ro was posted until 2006 the book which denied the Holocaust ("Romania against a new Israel", in an approximate translation, by Eusebiu Ovidiu Buruiana). All the content of the website was promptly erased after the website appeared mentioned in prosecuter's papers which leaked on the net. We are very familiar with romanian webpages, but you can try to make some searches using keywords as "masonry" or "protocols" on english yogaesoteric pages. I'm curios if you'll find some controversial materials.Personnally I noticed that on the english pages (or french or other western european language) some content is avoided, even if romanian yogaesoteric pages are full of it.
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

I notticed that one message of mine in which I posted the link to the "making of Magic Passage" was erased. I edited a previous message instead. If there is a policy of this website to not post links to "erotic" material, than I humbly request to have only the link erased, not the entire message. Everyone can easily find that clip using a search on video.google with the keywords "Magic Passage" or "Mihai Stoian". Thank you.
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

I have made a quick search and I found the Protocols even on the english webpage of the MISA's official webpage: yogaesoteric You can nottice that the Protocols are included in a subsection entitled "Uncontestable proof about the diabolical plans of freemasonry". Also some MISA students (a small part of them) were flirting on their own in the past with the ideology of some far-right groups from Romania of the '30's. There was no direct connection between MISA and the romanian far-right of today, but some individuals that were MISA students had their own sympathies for the far-right. Many of them are not MISA students anymore. And the sympathies were one-way only because the romanian far-right has a strong orthodox christian fundamentalist orientation and they don't like anything from de hindu or buddhist tradition. Anyway, you'll have to take into account the fact that in 2004 in power in Romania was a party with a left-wing ideology and that party was not comfortable with having in the country a group that attacked on a constant basis in it's publications the "zionistic-masonic occult power". Especially after 9/11.
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

Now about the persecutions (which were indeed real, by the way). When the first searches were made by armed policemen in the ashrams were made, it was quite clear that the police actually had at that time no case at all against those searched. So what happened? In the same time a PSD (the party in power) member was convicted for a major fraud (millions of US dollars). The irony is that the guy convicted was Gabriel Bivolaru, the step-brother of Gregorian Bivolaru (they had the same father), the guru of MISA. The MISA students (at least a part of them) think that the PSD wanted to create a smokescreen by bringing in the media the case of the guru brother to obscure the case of the other one, the politician. When Grieg tried to cross the border to get away, the police quickly made him a file with the accusation of sex with minors based on a forced testimony in my opinion (a forced testimony can be either false of true, but can not be used in court). So I think that the swedish court might have been right when gave Grieg polytical asylum.
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

But after Grieg got away in Sweden, the romanian prosecutors got scared because of the fuss in EU, and started to really dig for proofs of illegalities this time. So they made a new file, in which Grieg is just one of the defendants and the accusations are different: human traficking and antisemitic propaganda. It remains to be seen what will be the justice's verdict (maybe that of the European Court in Strasbourg) in the second trial. What made the persecutions start in the first place? I already presented here the "smokescreen" hypothesis (which is actually supported by many MISA students). Another rumour is that Grieg "initiated" the daughter of a major PSD leader. And that party leader had gone completely bunkers wen he found out and gave the police the "green light" to start the searches. And it was quite obvious that the police had only a vague idea of the MISA's activities when they started the searches.
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

The complexity of MISA's case resides in the fact that the authorities indeed made some abuses (that's my opinion) but in the same time MISA had some very real problems. Problems which were made public by the media in the aftermath of the armed searches. So both sides have in this case their part of the truth. But, of course, all of us that criticize MISA are masons, agents of the romanian secret services or reptilians and bla bla bla :) Oh, and if you don't know who are the reptilians, here they are, on MISA's official site: Removed
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

Oh, I was about to forget about the stories of "Grieg, the martyre of the anticommunist struggle". :) He was indeed a rebel in the years prior to the Revolution in 1989. And he was convicted for the distribution of pornographic materials. Funny thing is that until some years ago many sincerely believed that those accusations in the '70's and '80's were fakes. But after the movies hit the file-sharing hubs and servers in Romania and many recognized in them fellow students or even instructors, many people changed that opinion. Anyway, the explanation for the commercial distribution of the movies in Denmark is simple and partly understandable. The MISA yoga community in Romania started building ashrams in the '90's. But the economical conditions were very harsh (and are harsh even today). So the leaders of the school faced the problem of feeding and providing heat, electricity and water to hundreds or even thousands of people. And they didn't have the money for this. They've tried other solutions (opening stores with herbal remedies for examples) and they failed. So they've turned finally to the most easy source of money: the industry of sex. Edited 16/11/2007 17:23:43 by yogibis
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

The problem with the erotic movies was that many of the MISA students weren't even aware of their existence. The movies were sold in the northern countries, far away from Romania. But the Internet made possible the acces to those movies. And all hell broke loose afterwards. Many ex-MISA students and even some actual MISA students are enraged by the fact that they were lied and are still lied (the official position of MISA is that it has no connection with the movies). But between 1990 and 2004 the authorities gave to those activities a blind eye. They didn't even bother with the problem of those girls that went to Japan to be dancers in strip clubs. They suddenly became aware (or appeared to) of this only in 2004. To me it seems that the romanian authorities didn't even care what MISA was doing until something made them angry in 2004. Prior to 2004 in the romanian media appeared sporadically articles about the "orgies" and stuff, and the police made some small visits to the ashrams, but nothing serios. But in 2004 the things changed completely.
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

I don't know what really caused the persecutions. But I'm pretty sure it is not about anti-communism (15 years after the fall of communism the police didn't really bother MISA). Another rumour says that in 2004 (it was an ellection year) some PSD rulers approached Grieg about the businesses with movies and the dancers. They said to him that they knew he had money and asked him a contribution for their ellection campaign. He refused. But if this rumour is true, it can't explain why at first the prosecuters didn't use officially the accusations of human traficking but only the one of sex with minors. As I said before, there are real serious problems inside MISA school, despite the unfair treatment they received in 2004. Problem is that if someone tries to attract the attention to the MISA students in order to solve those problems, most of them will have a very defensive reaction. Usually they will promptly acuse the one that tries to open some subjects to discution as being a mason or a secret service's agent. I myself faced in the past such accusation. Well, I tried to present an objective picture of MISA's curent problems. I hope I succeded. If not, than you call me a reptilian, mason or secret service agent. :) It is the most facile answer, isn't it? ;)
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

The second part of the story is that after Grieg's exile, a part of the MISA's leaders became accutely aware of some problems that could not be hidden anymore. The former vice-president of MISA, Claudiu Trandafir, Simona Trandafir (I think, if I'm not mistaken, that she was former president of MISA for awhile) and Liviu Gheorghe (MISA instructor in Brasov) tried to reform the school. That thing brought a furious reaction from Sweden. And it started an exchange of open letters on net forums, in which, for example, Grieg accused Simona of being under some sort of demonic influence because she told some students to try to rely in their spiritual practice directly to God and not to him as a "middle man" and spiritual guide. Those "rebels" tried also to find a way to abandon some forms of obtaining money for the ashrams and use instead more "orthodox" means. The result was an open schism. Those who left MISA then created another school, Kamala. And many of the furious debates on sites like eamped.exmisa.com actually started after that schism, without having a direct connection with the actions of the romanian police or romanian media. But, of course, the media tries to get advantage of those debates and conflicts for it's rating and incomes. The bad thing is (in my opinion) that Grieg and his team refuse to see some big problems out of the fear of losing the trust and devotion of his disciples. And by doing this he really is losing those things in the case of many disciples. Edited 16/11/2007 17:03:54 by yogibis
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Patricia responded on 16 November 2007

Dear Yogibis Thank you for your post - some really excellent info there that has answered pretty much all my questions. Lots to digest and avenues to explore but I appreciate you helping me to understand the history behind MISA and the controversy, and for the neutrality of your post. Have a good weekend everyone!
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yogibis responded on 16 November 2007

Thanks, and a good week-end to you too!
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bendover responded on 16 November 2007

YES LETS HAVE SOME BALANCE HERE,ANY MISA PRACTITIONERS OUT THERE WHO WOULD LIKE TO REPLY TO THE ABOVE BY LEENA, OR MAYBE THOMAS WHEN YOU GET BACK FROM SWEDEN. IF NOT THEN LETS CLOSE THIS INCREASINGLY TEDIOUS POST.LEENA YOU'VE MADE YOUR QUITE DETAILED POINT SO LETS SEE IF ANYBODY TAKES YOU ON. WILL YOU CHALLENGE MISA WHEN THEY OPEN A UK BRANCH AS MENTIONED IN A PREVIOUS POST.PLEASE BE BRIEF.
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yogibis responded on 18 November 2007

I was reading these days some of the content in english on MISA's official site. And I've found even in english written the fact that the book of Valentin Manoliu was distributed "as a gift" in 2006. Here is a small fragment from the text: "It was also not accidental that this press campaign was initiated at the end of May, shortly after the end of the spiritual camp in Herculane. The real motive behind this campaign is the book that was offered as a gift to participants of the International Yoga Symposium, Herculane 2006, called "Dezvaluiri uluitoare despre modul in care este afectata Romania de gigantica conspiratie internationala a Noii Ordini Mondiale"-"Astounding disclosures about the way in which Romania is affected by the gigantic international conspiracy of the New World Order"-by Valentin Manoliu." You can check the existence of this fragment on the website on this link: Removed
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yogibis responded on 18 November 2007

But those that manage the website didn't translate in english the fragments from the book that were posted on the website in romanian. In that book, Manoliu accuses the romanian jewish community of subversive actions against the romanian state in complicity with the former president, mr. Ion Iliescu. This is the link in romanian: Removed A small fragment in romanian: "Comunitatea evreiasca si Ion Iliescu au colaborat intens dupa decembrie 1989. Atunci cand Ion Iliescu voia sa pregateasca o lovitura de stat se folosea de comunitatea evreiasca, iar cand comunitatea evreiasca dorea sa atace pe cineva sau vreun post de televiziune, cum a fost cazul OTV-ului, s-a folosit de Ion Iliescu si de justitia romana." And I'l try to translate it as accurate as possible in english: "The jewish community and Ion Iliescu were collaborating intensely after december 1989. When Ion Iliescu wanted to prepare a coup d'etat he was using the jewish community and when the jewish community wanted to attack somebody or a TV channel, like OTV, they used Ion Iliescu and the romanian justice system."
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yogibis responded on 18 November 2007

And there are more accusations against the jewish community in the text. Like that one in which Manoliu affirms allegedly that the freemasonry and the jewish community tried to close OTV because in it's TV shows apeared the great "disclosure" that the masonry created and spreaded deliberetely the HIV virus in order to kill billions of people in order to gain the control of the planet.
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yogibis responded on 18 November 2007

An interesting thing is that MISA is very heavily supported today by romanian NGO's and human rights activists despite the fact that some of those activists don't like at all the publication or the distribution of such kind of texts. One of the most famous human rights activist in Romania, mr. Gabriel Andreescu, constantly defended MISA in its conflict with the romanian authorities. He is practically the principal defender that MISA has now. But at the same time mr. Andreescu openly critised quite very harshly the same MISA for its "violent antimasonic propaganda". He did this thing in the romanian journal Ziua in 2004, and in "Noua revista pentru drepturile omului" (New magazine for human rights - in 2006). Some fragments of his virulent criticism against that "antimasonic propaganda" are posted even in an article on yogaesoteric in romanian (of course, there the yogaesoteric team expresses it's disagreement with mr. Andreescu declarations). Removed
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Leena responded on 19 November 2007

bendover, "WILL YOU CHALLENGE MISA WHEN THEY OPEN A UK BRANCH AS MENTIONED IN A PREVIOUS POST", you say. I don't remember saying this in any of my posts. Is that the conclusion you draw after reading them? And what exactly do you mean by "challenge"? It's obvious Thomas, Andrew and anyone else can do whatever the law allows in their own countries. They can open an ashram if they want, no problem. I and the others here, speaking about MISA's situation, were just trying to tell them and anyone interested that MISA is not crystal-clear. It's their choice whether to think about what we've said or not. They may do whatever their consciousness dictates them to do. I don't know the English people, I don't know their mentalities, so I can't tell how they will react to this (bulding a MISA ashram in the UK) - by the way, MISA is already in the UK - TARA Foundation. So I can't really challenge anything in the UK.
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Leena responded on 19 November 2007

What I don't like, though, is for foreigners to call Romania a "gypsy state", a "communist country", and claim that "whoever is not with us, is a secret agent" and so on. I believe that, when you start to judge a whole country and a whole people through the posts of one or several persons who are just trying to ring a bell on an important problem from that country, you tend to become a xenophobe. I guess you saw what the reply was when I asked that guy to be more careful about the way he expresses himself. We'll just see how the MISA case will be handled in Romania from now on and provide people with accurate data, which can easily be verified. As for myself, I have to admit I am quite disappointed in the OSCE, EU and European Parliament.
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InI responded on 19 November 2007

Dear Leena, dont bother, this is a poor guy -maybe from misa-... if you didnt recognize it yet: bendover = bend over (famous internet site - beside the meaning) same person as Thomas, Andrew,... good luck!
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Ben responded on 19 November 2007

Dear Thomas when you get back from sweden dont bother with the above,comrade ic, leena, yogabis obiously the same person, who still long for the old controlling state. sorry darling but the wall came down a long time ago. Who's andrew?
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BENDOVER responded on 19 November 2007

BY the way comrade leena its bendover as in forward bend.not a web site.
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Leena responded on 20 November 2007

You make me laugh... To quote an intelligent person in my circle of acquaintances, "if you cannot win the finer points of an argument, just blur the context". InI: thanks. For all MISA supporters, be them individuals or duplicates: as both you and I know, one of MISA's fundamental principles is resonance. They claim to be united with universal harmony and the divine will. Well, if in this universal harmony and divine will, there is written that MISA will have to face justice (man's or God's), so shall it be, and neither me, nor Thomas, Andrew, whoever, will be able to do anything in this respect. What we can do, though, is watch our steps, decisions and actions. To quote another principle that I like, "do what thy willst, but harm none". And another one: "Sorry seems to be the hardest word".
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Marylle responded on 21 December 2007

I was just invited by my Yoga teacher to go to Sweden for the tantric initiation by the MASTER. But now I read so many controverse things in the net...Is it really true that GRIEG is already almost impotent, transmits a lot of diseases and in the last years could only manage to get erections with the help of pharmaceuticals - and then the initiations were anally? Please help me! I really have doubts now...
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Berty responded on 24 December 2007

OOOOH ARRRR MARY ,OI BEEN PRACTISIN THEM THER FORWARRD BENDS AN OI REKIN OI BE REARY FORR A GOOOD SEEING TO FROM GREGGY GURU.
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LOGOS responded on 25 December 2007

Dear Marylle, certainly a public internet forum is not a good place to discuss the topics you mentioned. Why dont you talk with your yoga teacher or one of the other already initiated girls of your yoga school? Ask them about the dramatic changes that happened to them after their initiation and how happy their life is now! I send you my love...
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Leena responded on 27 December 2007

Dear Marylle, Think about the fact that Mister Bivolaru is over 50 now. Several girls who passed by him said his lingam was not hard, just semi-hard. Several girls also stated that he got them infected with various STD's, like Trichomonas or Gardnerella and so they had to follow a treatment. And yes, he uses afrodisiacs, to feel better during the intercourse. Pay attention, there are testimonies that he actually fell asleep during the act, with the girl under or on top of him. About the anal penetration, I don't know if he actually did it himself, but he certainly recommended it for the girl's legs or breasts to grow bigger. As for the information taken from the Internet, just read the English section of the eamped forum. You'll see how girls were treated by Mister Bivolaru.
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Leena responded on 27 December 2007

One more thing: few yoga teachers will be so careful and open-minded as to really advise you for the best. If they believe that being initiated by the Master is a divine grace, that you are so special for having been chosen, that you will burn so much negative karma away by sleeping with Mr. Bivolaru, that your energy will so much increase and stuff like that, then there's no chance you will get helpful information from them. It's likely that they tell you not to listen to Internet rumours, to those evil people who left their path, missed their spiritual evolution and now "vibrate" only through lower, demonic energies, which make them criticise the Master and the Movement itself. Of couse it's up to you to choose whether to go or not, but let me ask you, are you willing to risk your health for that? Some girls were paralysed during the sexual act or so they felt, I don't know what he did to them.
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Leena responded on 27 December 2007

I don't know what faith you have been raised into, Marylle, but perhaps you know that Mr. Bivolaru is compared with Jesus. I've never heard of Jesus sleeping with any of his female followers or devotees. If you decide to go and are lucky, you will get an oral opening and then the penetration itself. Stiff or soft, hard to say, given the circumstances. If you decide to go and are not so lucky, you will be called "cow", "narrow-minded", "closed within yourself" and stuff like that. I hope he will not have you eat bananas with chocolate cream, in order to get fatter, meaning "vital". There is the chance that you might actually feel good doing this, but my advice is to think ten times before committing yourself to this. If you deny, your teacher might also push you aside, see you as stupid or sucker for having denied such a great chance to evolve. Your friends from the yoga course might also separate from you and leave you out of their "special circle". But I don't believe it's them who live yor life or have to decide for you, so just take care. All the best.
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jAMES responded on 27 December 2007

lEENA ,LOGAS WHATEVER YOUR REAL NAME ,THESE ARE REALLY DISGUSTING POSTS ,TRUE OR UNTRUE .THEY HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR TO LONG NOW .READING THESE POSTS ONE GATHERS THAT YOU WERE A VICTIM AND SUFFERED AT THE HANDS OF THAT WANKER GREIG. TROUBLE IS YOU GO ON AND ON AND ON ABOUT IT. DO YOU REALLY THINK HE HAS A HOPE IN HELL OF SETTING UP IN THE UK?? THESE POSTS ARE PURE SPITE AND HATE AND NOTHING TO DO WITH YOGA SPIRITUALITY OR LOVE.
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Leena responded on 27 December 2007

jAMES, I didn't understand a thing. Rephrase your post, 'cause I don't know what you mean. I'm not one of Grieg's victims, fortunately.
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James responded on 29 December 2007

Leena, logos, What don't you understand. you now say that you were not a victim of this cult .so what were the last two paragraphs of your last post all about. Talk of oral openings, penetration,stiff or soft etc,etc etc.also talk of bananas chocolate etc. but know you tell us you were not a victim, so what was your involvement? filming ,witnessing or is this just a sick pack of lies?? As I said in my previous post ,that tosser and his cult have no chance of setting up over here. I am sick of reading these disgusting vile posts about that man!! Even more pathetic is the fact that you now admit you were not a victim.
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Leena responded on 30 December 2007

Dear James, dear other... confused people: I have never been involved with MISA or Grieg. Yet, I came to know several people who were in the movement and decided to leave it, at one time or the other, some of the reasons being the ones stated by me above. Now, for the last time: when I post "vile" and "disgusting" messages about MISA and Grieg, I do it because I feel people deserve to be informed upon all the good and bad sides of MISA and its guru. The information submitted by me here is based on the testimonies given on the Romanian exmisa eamped forum and on my personal and private talks with other people, both ex- and still- students, or even instructors, such as Mihai Stoian. I hope my part on this forum is clearer now. To me, it's quite obvious that the Romanian mentality and the western one on the topic are so very different. Another type of education and social culture, I guess. Another type of thinking, of reasoning, of mental processing.
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James responded on 30 December 2007

Not confused Leenalogos, but completly clear. after months of vile postings claiming sexual exploitation etc,etc,etc,you now reveal that you were never a victim or even involved with misa, but just came to know a FEW PEOPLE who were involved. you then decided to bombard this forum going on and on and on, with your vile postings.JUST TO RE- CAP ,YOU WERE NEVER A VICTIM OR EVEN A MEMBER OF MISA. NEVER A VICTIM OR EVEN A MEMBER OF MISA. I PERSONALY HOPE THE READERS OF THIS FORUM ARE NEVER SUBJECTED TO YOUR VILE RANTINGS EVER AGAIN. HOPING YOU FIND SOME PEACE OF MIND IN THE NEW YEAR, MY PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU. JAMES.
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Leena responded on 01 January 2008

Thanks, James, but I stay by my opinion. Meaning: different reasoning, different social culture, different social interaction. As you have seen on this forum, people still consider Romania to be a communist country, where one is denied the freedom of speech. I don't know if those who said this have really come to know Romania, but, since they can afford the privilege to state that about my country, I don't see why I shouldn't have the right to give my opinion on MISA, without being involved with it. In some cases - and MISA is one of them - you don't have to stick your hand into the fire to know it will burn you. Nevertheless, there will always be dreamers and there will always be stand-takers. I chose to belong to the second category. You chose to criticize my choice.
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James responded on 02 January 2008

LEENALOGOS,TIME TO MOVE ON MAYBE TAKE UP YOGA AS PRACTICED IN THIS COUNTRY. REMEMBER YOU WERE NEVER A VICTIM OR EVEN A MEMBER OF MISA, SO NOTHING TO REALLY GET OVER. WISHING YOU A WONDERFUL HAPPY NEW YEAR. JAMES.
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matangi responded on 10 January 2008

Dear Leena, please tell me, why Claudiu Trandafir has left the school and where I can find him. Please let me also know what happened to Simona Trandafir and Monica Cesna. I m studying Yoga in Germany an need more informations about the history og MISA. Thank you
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Leena responded on 14 January 2008

Dear matangi, MISA has been through a tough time during the last 12 months, let's say. Apparently, some of the older supporters and instructors finally realised that something was not right and left the movement. A fierce exchange of letters between them and Grieg showed some animosities which were not supposed to exist in a spiritual school. Some of them were related to money, some other, to books written (or translated) by some people, while Grieg was taking the praise for that, and some others, to the very way the course was being led recently. Claudiu Trandafir sent a final letter to Grieg, telling him it was the end of the line for him, seen that the cooperation between them could no longer continue - I already exposed some of the reasons. Claudiu left MISA and went to Thailand, to Narcis Tarcau, for a while.
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Leena responded on 14 January 2008

Meanwhile, Simona Trandafir, who also decided to leave the movement, started her own school, together with Liviu Gheorghe. It is called kamala and you can find the site on the Internet (I don't know if I'm allowed to post it here). Claudiu also teaches there, but he is away, most of the time. Simona was called demonic and the Devil's tool by Grieg, the letters exist on the Romanian forums I kept talking about. As for Monica Cesa, she died of cancer and, on her death bed, Grieg told Simona Trandafir to read a message in which he was saying that Monica got the illness because she dared speak against Grieg and MISA, gossiping, as he himself stated. I hope I managed to resume - very shortly, unfortunately - what went on here, in Romania, during all this time.
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Leena responded on 14 January 2008

Moreover, although, before their separation from MISA, both Narcis and Claudiu were highly appreciated, the first one, for being the first follower to be invested as swami in India, and the second one, for having revelead his Self, after they got together (like I said, Claudiu went to Narcis for a while), MISA's official web site, yoga esoteric, published an article (or maybe two) in which both Narcis and Claudiu were bitterly criticized and literally dismissed as human beings and yoga practitioners. They were presented as ordinary people, lacking any spiritual values. I guess this was the way Grieg thought he could take revenge on them. You must also know that MISA has developed a bad habit indeed: some people, in their search for being appreciated and held in Grieg, the Great Master and Guru's estime, practically spy on the others and, when they think they see something Grieg will disapprove of, they run to him and pour everything out, for him to judge and punish the "guilty" ones. This happened to Simona as well.
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perdurabo responded on 15 January 2008

Hi Matangi, I would also be interested in evaluating Misas german branch "Deutsche Akademie für traditionelles Yoga e.V.", especially as they also start "Yoga for children" now (Erlangen);and yet I know, that their leaders did NOT use the chance of separating from Grieg and his deeds. Moreover, they happily send women -after the brainwash- to the "tantric infections/initiations" (Sweden), "open up" dance bars and much more... Maybe the time has come now to inform the media... Since the german population will STRONGLY react to such a story (especially the combination of kiddie yoga next to urine porn film productions), I wonder if we could put our knowledge together to a german part of the romanian EXMISA forum? Best regards, -perdurabo-
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JAMES responded on 15 January 2008

There you go again leena, unable to move on and get a life. you are now moving into complete fantasy land with your fictional posts, er perdurabo,matangi etc. why don't you set up your own forum. you can invent as many imaginary posts as you wish and go on and on and on and on and on and on. remember you were never there ,never abused .Never a member of misa and never abused .print your filth elsewhere and leave this forum alone. I did feel sorry for you at one stage,I assumed you had been a victim,but it turns out that you are a complete utter sorry crank!!who by your own admission was NEVER A MEMBER AND NEVER ABUSED.
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perdurabo responded on 15 January 2008

haha "james bendover" or whatever your real name is - why dont you get "initiated" by the great guru yourself? maybe you (or he) would like some muladhara stimulation! then you would be a proud victim... Its hard to believe one can be so foolish to deny reality totally: 1) dont you know that the abused victims will be PUNISHED BY GOD (=Guru) if they speak about their experiences/infections? unfortunately many believe that -due to hardcore brainwashing. 2) watch those pee movies yourself and see if you get enlightened! 3) you really have no compassion with those abused girls??? and... 4) you dont feel that its necessary to protect those girls which are right now in the misa yoga classes? or are now recruited (age 7-14)??? to be some fresh flesh in the sex industry? if you cannot see the truth now with all your knowledge - well, you will have to learn it the hard way! best regs and HAPPY DEPROGRAMMING, -perdurabo (Griegs best friend)-
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trad.yoga.ger responded on 15 January 2008

I am a member of the german branch. They tell us that Grieg is in Isolation. We dont hear anything about initiations in Sweden. I see a lot of things critical: They never give the source of the ancient texts. They want us to become strong what means fat. And they teach the makrocosmos/microcosmos relations very simple, too simple for me.
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matangi responded on 15 January 2008

thank you for answering so quickly. I am not sure with Misa. The hatha yoga practice is very good for me, but I see a lot of things critical. And I don t feel well with the system. But I don t see alternatives. The knowledge of continence is excellent and I didn t found another school where they teach it. And I don t speak roman, so I cannot understand the texts on the misasite.
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matangi responded on 15 January 2008

Has anyone made experiences with kamala?
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matangi responded on 15 January 2008

I have never seen any porn videos and also no peeing girls ón videos. Where can I find them. All the links are deleted. I have heard the statement of Grieg Sex without Love is prostitution. Do they really tell the girls, that they burn Karma or balance their svadisthana chakra by doing erotic dance and striptease in the porn industrie. I mean there is a difference if you do it for your lovers or for the public.
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JAMES responded on 15 January 2008

PERDURABU LEENA ,SEE YOU'VE BEEN A BUSY MANWOMAN BUT NOT SAYING ANYTHING NEW. PERSONALY I COULD NOT GIVE A MONKEYS TOSS ABOUT MISA ,THERE IS NO WAY A BUNCH OFF TOSSERS LIKE THAT COULD EVER GET A FOOTHOLD IN THIS COUNTRY. YOU ROMANIANS MUST HAVE BEEN REALLY GULLABLE. HANG ON WHAT AM I SAYING, FOR ALL I KNOW MISA MAY BE OK. I FORGOT FOR A MOMENT THAT YOU ,LEENA OR WHATEVER YOUR REAL NAME IS WAS NEVER THERE,NEVER ABUSED. NEVER A MEMBER ,NEVER ABUSED. TIME YOU GOT YOURSELF A LIFE ,MAYBE A JOB TO TAKE YOUR MIND OFF THIS FORUM. I wont be wasting anymore time with you and your filthy perverted posts. get some help before its to late.
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moriniuk responded on 15 January 2008

That's a relief for me Jimbo.
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perdurabo responded on 16 January 2008

thank you, james bendover I promise I wont cry... germans et al: for english translations see: google1: natha agama tara google2: exmisa forum google3: open letter exmisa one of the fora is down right now, but you will find everything you need backed up in the other forum or in the google cache, including links to the movies. the knowledge of "continence" you can find everywhere in classical and also newer tantric literature, = the places where misa found it same with the borrowed "initiation" mantras from Swami Shivananda et al they dont give original text sources because the change it to fit their system - of course =fraud I can tell you that all your yoga teachers LIE to you, sanctioned by guru (you are not "advanced"=brainwashed enough) Once you are "advanced"=brainwashed enough and female (+ pretty and +++ chubby): HAPPY INFECTITIATION in Sweden (if guru got viagra)! This is mediated by your -mostly female- teacher and some other very very advanced shaktis (eg female leaders Denmark). ...are male: you will know nothing at all, because of course this is kept extremely secret---if the girls talk (even if they had a bad experience)- they will be PUNISHED BY GOD. (schön schäbig, nicht?)
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perdurabo responded on 16 January 2008

so: 1) be sure not to get a straight and faithful answer 2) be sure that almost all of the girls in your "school" are already infectitiated-but will not tell you about this karma erasing and enlightning act. I have to admit that I really appreciate the misa brainwashing methods, as eg feeding your brain with guru after breaking the conscious barrier through meditation, and a compilation of those will be published soon-but on the other side its very easy to deprogram yourself after a while. well, the veneral diseases take more time! HAPPY DEPROGRAMMING, -perdurabo-
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shakti responded on 16 January 2008

I assume you know all this through personal experience, how long did it take you to get rid of the veneral disease or are you still suffering from infection. I would imagine though that the mental trauma from being abused is still with you.misa sound just dreadful. how long were you abused and brainwashed leena and how did you break free from this organisation. Do you still need help leena is there some practical assistance you need.
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perdurabo responded on 16 January 2008

at shakti (=james bendover): if you would read the postings carefully, you would have skipped this last one, my dear... HAPPY DEPROGRAMMING! -perdurabo-
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Shakti responded on 16 January 2008

Sorry Leena ,not connected with james or any other male ,and I was interested to know how you broke free from misa ,and got over the abuse and veneral disease you accuratly write about. did misa try to get you back into the organisation and were you able to take any legal action regarding the abuse you suffered. I am genuinly concerned about you as I sense despration and hurt from your posts. I don't believe that you were never a part of it or that you were never abused . How can people on this forum help you.? Have you been blackmailed regarding any movies you may have participated in. there are people on this site who may be able to help you.physically or mentaly. I am on your side. Shakti.
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Leena responded on 17 January 2008

Dear shakti, I'm not telling lies when I say I haven't been involved with MISA - I mean, I haven't gone to their classes, met Grieg or anything like that. I activate on the Romanian exmisa eamped forum, which, unfortunately, is down at the moment. That's how I came to know about MISA and all. Moreover, my fiance has been with MISA for 15 years and left the Movement last year. He also told me about them and what he saw or heard while being in the Movement. I have the adult movies, I've seen them, friends of my fiance have recognized several MISA girls in them. The situation is quite complex. Although I have not been involved directly, I get angry each time I see a new testimony on the forum, because most of them talk about people's lives being screwed up. I have searched for help in several directions, I have even contacted the International Yoga Federation, since MISA is a member there, and Grieg appears there as well, but they simply don't care.
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Leena responded on 17 January 2008

Dear matangi, The girls go to Japan or other foreign countries for the school. They sign a contract - I have a copy of it - and they accept to donate their earnings to MISA. They get only a small part of it, upon their return to Romania, and are not allowed to keep any of the things received as presents - jewelry, electronic devices, watches and so on unless Grieg agrees with it. Anyhow, they must declare all they got, because they are waited for at the airport and taken straight to a MISA ashram or another MISA location, to present and give up everything they earned. They are searched if they refuse to obey. The sums gathered by MISA this way are huge. The bad thing is that they believe they are doing karma-yoga by videochatting and dancing in striptease bars. Grieg also tells them that this action will enhance their feminity and they will become more opened. I don't understand why he opted for this way of karma-yoga - meaning with sexual implications, when he could have chosen something less... objectionable.
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Leena responded on 17 January 2008

Dear shakti (again), Thank you for your kind support. I guess the exmisa forums have acted as a sort of therapy for all those people, both guys and girls, who found the strength to break free from MISA. It was not easy for them to recall all that they have been part of, and I'm sure many will never have that necessary courage to step aside and decide that MISA is no longer what it was supposed to be. As for the legal aspects, the situation is quite complicated, Grieg's trials in Romania are always postponed, the prosecutors and judges don't seem to move much, MISA takes advantage of the justice's mistakes (especially March 18, 2004) and goes abroad and convinces important people and institutions there they are being persecuted and denied basic human rights, but mostly that they are crystal-clear and have nothing to do with all those accusations, adult movies and all... And the Westerners believe them, either because they only know one side of the story, or because they know it on the whole, but don't care... It's quite discouraging...
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cecilia tiz responded on 17 January 2008

Hello everybody, first please excuse me, for my bad English, a learned it watching Englisch movies on Romanian tv. James, I was in the MISA movement for 14 years and I taught yoga for Deutsche Akademie für traditionelles Yoga - the German MISA branch in Essen for 5 years. I left MISA at the beginning of 2005. I can tell from my personal experience and from that of my friends, that everything that Leena told you is ,unfortunately, true. Leena (who wasn't at MISA), I and many other people that all were in the MISA movement work together to make public the real face of MISA. Matangi, Perturabo and trad.yoga.ger. please contact me on exmisa.ro, there I am mahacutra, or on mahacutra on yahoo.com to discuss the matter of DAtY, cause in German it's much easiear for me. For a couple a weeks I was thinking about creating on exmisa.ro a German area. I need your help to do this and also to inform the German public. Bye, Cecilia Edited 17/01/2008 13:07:40 by cecilia tiz
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Leena responded on 17 January 2008

A question for everybody Are here any ex- or still MISA students belonging to any other MISA branch from abroad (they have many, in many countries), APART from Germany, who would like to share their experiences / find out more about the "brain" (MISA Romania) / discuss issues / share ideas / need or offer help in any way? You can write me in English, French, Italian or Spanish, at deria _ leena 26 at yahoo . com (remove the spaces before submitting your messages).
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matangi responded on 17 January 2008

The magic passage: Mihai and Adina Stoian as Porn actors. Well Í have seen the movie the magic passage the making off and ….o.k.I think Mihai Stoian can f*** his wife Adina as often as he likes, where ever he likes and as deep he likes and if it important for his spiritual or personal transformation to make a porn movie...why not. In german we say Des Menschen Wille ist sein Himmelreich. Das bedeutet, man ist glücklich wenn man bekommt, was man haben möchte.
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matangi responded on 17 January 2008

Mihai Stoian and Adina Stoian as porn actors the video can be found on video.google So, why not a porn movie to reach new states of personal freedom or sexual extasy. But why on earth does he wear so funny glasses? An why on earth does he call himself Paul Diamond? Is this his artists name? And Adina, how ever beautiful, gentle and not so obviously jealous as usual
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matangi responded on 17 January 2008

So please tell me where do you see the problem with this movie? I think ist is not the best image work for a school like natha, but a goog image work for Mihais Lingam :-)
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matangi responded on 17 January 2008

This way of Karma Yoga in Japan. Well, if the girls believe that they do Karma Yoga by dancing in sexbars and if they believe that Karma Yoga burns their Karma, it will be like this. The Concept of Karma Yoga can be seen critical, from the one point of view it is an unconditional offering and something very spaecial. On the other side can the willing to do Karma Yoga be easyly misused. And the reason why Grieg has chosen the sex industrie for his Karma Yoga girls is obvous: The Money. What else should he do with so many women who wants to establish their stakti state? Should they work as room mates? Or as yoga teachers? This brings not enough money.
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Leena responded on 17 January 2008

Dear matangi, The problem is NOT Mihai Stoian's movie. I have talked with Mihai Stoian, he told me what he intended to do and why. The problem is with the OTHER movies, in which several girls from MISA are starring. They pee on each other, lick each other, kiss and caress each other. No problem so far, right? Well, how would you have liked Grieg to tell you that you have to pass through the urinary orgasm test if you want to attend the Miss Shakti competition as a contestant and then, WITHOUT informing you, he would sell your performance abroad? Would you feel OK with that? Would you feel spiritual, satisfied, completed, evolved? Or just lied to, used and abused? Think about it.
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Yogini responded on 17 February 2008

Has anyone seen any evidence that Gregorian Bivolaru is even an average yogi? His disciples, perhaps naively, claim that he is a great yogi without evidence. What evidence there is that he has been using the good name of yoga for unethical purposes. I am shocked that any federation would allow his group as a member given the testimony raised here on and other forums by ex-members of the group who have been brave enough to give their names.
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Cecilia Tiz responded on 12 March 2008

Yogini, you can judge on your own, how far the spirituality of the Compass Guru goes, if you read the newest exemplification he will do today, on his birthday: THE TOPIC OF THIS SPIRITUAL EXEMPLIFICATION WILL BE: WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO ME 777 BILLIONS OF BILLIONS OF YEARS? WILL I STILL EXIST THEN? The original message on yogaesoteric english area.
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Yogini responded on 12 March 2008

It is too much to read and not much yoga that I know. I read about sex in threesome and woman-to-woman on exmisa forum. Can you explain for the unwise?
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hatha responded on 13 March 2008

more filth from the porn posting.
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abroader responded on 14 March 2008

I have been leaving abroad (Scandinavia) for over 7 years now. While in Romania, I have attended MISA classes for 4 years, a couple of times went to their camps. I had a couple of friends to hang out with, they were much more into it than me, but I can define myself as an average practitioner, which tried to figure out the real thing about what they were teaching. I enjoyed a lot the Hatha Yoga practice... I am still doing it today... on my own. The only suspicious thing I have heard then was about this Shakti initiation, and that some girls were really eager about it.
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abroader responded on 14 March 2008

So, after 4 years of practice in Romania I moved to Scandinavia because of the job, but at that point there was no MISA school here (for a while I was considering flying to Copenhagen regularly for the courses, but gave up). Then, 3 years ago, they opened a site also here where I am. I continued to attend the courses here (nothing new, as they started from the beginning), but I loved the Hatha Yoga sessions and the simple pranayama techniques. At the course, I must say there was nothing what would even by far lead anyone to think about what MISA deep inside is. I have stopped attending the classes last september. I am practising only by myself, with the knowledge I have devoloped. I have been interested in the genuine Yoga, and still am... I really feel pity about all this mess and about those caught up in it, and a bit disappointed, but as long as one can keep a clear mind and follow their own inner guide, they cannot force you do anything. If you are in MISA keep a clear head. Take advantage of what is good there. Good luck! PS: Girls, don't be fooled about all the free sex... No sex without love! That is my principle! How can any girl be fooled to go with G... Edited 14/03/2008 15:24:11 by abroader
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sceptic responded on 15 March 2008

I agree with you, abroader! I only find the point: "but as long as one can keep a clear mind and follow their own inner guide, they cannot force you do anything" problematic. Dont forget they lie to you from the beginning, and now there even are courses for kids (7-14)!!! So you are tricked into the filth slowly... I have met several really brainwashed "compassguru-initiated" anxious women and wonder if one would consider the brainwashing act as harmless and nice enjoyment. In my opinion at least it is absolutely important to inform the parents (if they are ignorant enough to put their kids in a porn "school" sect like misa-natha). This is now achieved by the internet fora, but should also be done by the diverse governments.
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Leena responded on 19 March 2008

sceptic, yoga for kids? Courses organized by MISA or Natha? If it's true, can you give any further details?
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Leena responded on 19 March 2008

Girl-on-girl and threesome sex (one guy with two girls) is strongly recommended by Grieg in order for the girl to develop her inner woman and her feminity. This is taught at the shakti groups, during the various secret initiations and it all comes with Grieg's message: sex is the way to know God. And, since he is considered the second person in rank after Jesus Christ, you can imagine what importance is given to having sex with him.
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BIG73 responded on 22 March 2008

I read very attentively this forum because i am in search of any information related to MISA. I am strongly involved in all threads about it, i have to know the truth. The most important here is not to debate about yoga, but about MISA only. So if anybody have complete informations, testimonials, ... i am very interested.
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sceptic responded on 22 March 2008

Dear Leena, its unbelievable, but my links to the "yoga for kids" organized by misa - natha have been deleted!!! I cant understand that because there are many posts with webadresses. And this is supposed to be YOGA for children -in a Yoga forum!...or does the editor of this forum know more than I and does not have the responsibility to protect children???!!! I wonder why that could be???????? anyway then google: 1) erlangen kinderyoga (you will find a DATY page) 2) "yoga for kids" "esoteric yoga" (you will find sweden; directly at masters place) best regs!
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Tantrika responded on 22 March 2008

Matangi, Claudiu is indeed in Thailand with Narcis Tarcau at Agama Yoga. He doesnt live there but comes there often for workshops etc. Since NArcis himself fell off with Grieg, other MISA teachers that Narcis knew are going to Agama school in Thailand. The website is www.agamayoga.com and you will find Claudiu here. I have met him personally last year when I was studying yoga there........... Tantrika
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Leena responded on 22 March 2008

Dear sceptic, made it. Thanks. I posted the information in the right place.
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nemesis responded on 15 February 2009

Time to bump this important thread I think
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vibes responded on 16 February 2009

Anyone remember David Koresh and his nutty cult? Or Osho and his sexy Indian ashram? Or Jahovia witnesses, jewish,muslim,hindu fundamentalists? Misa are obviously in the same category. It is brain washing. Shame it exists. Hope this thread has enlightened people to understand how 'Yoga' has become a blanket term for so many different ideas, many of which have nothing to do with Yoga. However the ancient Yoga books mention it several times - Be your own man! In other words - do not follow in the steps of others-whether it's buddha,Mohamed,Jesus,Moses, or Gandhi - but be yourself and avoid believing MISAs beliefs -shouldnt be MISA but MRSA (spreads like a virus)! How can you possibly develop and improve if you follow a path that is not you?
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